Week 4 2023 · October 1, 2023
Vikings at Panthers, Week 4 2023: who deserved to win?
The Vikings beat the Panthers 21–13, and it was no fluke: replayed with the way both teams actually played, the Vikings win 9 of 10. The Panthers had the bounces: 3rd & 4th downs alone were worth 3.6 points to the Panthers.
An off day for the Panthers: their offense and defense both played far below their usual level. In a fresh game against the Vikings they would win 37% of the time; with this day’s form, 7%. The numbers
Before kickoff the Vikings were 63% favorites. The biggest swing (Q1, 10:42 left): the Vikings were stopped on 3rd & 5, worth 70 points of win probability to the Panthers.
Final
| 21 | |
| 13 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +7 Vikings about even · −7 Panthers
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Vikings win 9, Panthers win 1.
- 1 MIN 37 CAR 6
- 2 MIN 34 CAR 10
- 3 MIN 37 CAR 17
- 4 MIN 30 CAR 13
- 5 MIN 24 CAR 9
- 6 MIN 23 CAR 10
- 7 MIN 20 CAR 10
- 8 MIN 13 CAR 7
- 9 MIN 6 CAR 3
- 10 MIN 17 CAR 23
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
An off day for the Panthers
Their offense and defense both played far below their usual level. In a fresh game against the Vikings they would win 37% of the time; with this day’s form, 7%.
Same teams, fresh game
Replay with same day's form
30 points apart for the Panthers: the gap is how differently this game went from what the two teams usually are.
| Unit | This game | Usual level | Better or worse than usual |
|---|---|---|---|
| Vikings offenseEPA per play gained | +0.27 | +0.09 | better by 0.18 |
| Vikings defenseEPA per play allowed | −0.11 | +0.12 | better by 0.23 |
| Panthers offenseEPA per play gained | −0.11 | +0.04 | worse by 0.15 |
| Panthers defenseEPA per play allowed | +0.27 | +0.07 | worse by 0.19 |
EPA (expected points added) per play on competitive snaps, turnovers left out because they are valued as luck. Usual level: the team’s earlier games this season plus half of last season, pulled toward the league average. One team’s defense and the other team’s offense are the same snaps, so one game can’t fully say whose day it was; it shows how far this one was from both teams’ norms.
How 4,000 replays ended
Vikings win 93% of them, Panthers 7%, counting the 2% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Vikings by 8.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Vikings by 17+ | 55.1% |
| Vikings by 9–16 | 21.6% |
| Vikings by 1–8 | 15.1% |
| Level after regulation | 1.6% |
| Panthers by 1–8 | 4.6% |
| Panthers by 9–16 | 1.7% |
| Panthers by 17+ | 0.4% |
Where the luck was
Take the luck out
The final margin was Vikings by 8. Remove the luck, one kind at a time, and it becomes Vikings by 10.0.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- E. Pineiro, 26 yds made · 99% expected
- E. Pineiro, 56 yds made · 64% expected
When it happened
Panthers’ chance of winning
As low as 0% and as high as 88%. Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q1 12:17 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Panthers, 45 yardsJudgment calls | +12% MIN | MIN: Opp touchdown |
| 2 | Q1 11:29 | Offensive Holding on the Vikings (Josh Oliver), 10 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls · 3 flags in 1168 snaps before, position avg 1 per 286 | +8% CAR | CAR: Opp touchdown |
| 3 | Q1 10:42 | The Vikings were stopped on 3rd & 53rd & 4th downs · 34% expectedThe Vikings threw an interception-worthy pass, and it was pickedInterceptions · 45% expected to stay out of the defense's handsReturn touchdown by the PanthersSpecial teams | +70% CAR | MIN: Punt |
| 4 | Q2 5:29 | The Vikings were stopped on 3rd & 53rd & 4th downs · 42% expected | +8% CAR | MIN: Punt |
| 5 | Q2 3:26 | Offensive Holding on the Panthers, 10 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls | +10% MIN | MIN: Turnover |
| 6 | Q2 0:46 | The Vikings were intercepted on a well-placed throwInterceptions · 0% expected to stay out of the defense's hands | +15% CAR | MIN: Punt |
| 7 | Q3 4:09 | The Panthers fumbled and the Vikings recoveredFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50Return touchdown by the VikingsSpecial teams | +43% MIN | CAR: Punt |
| 8 | Q4 2:02 | The Panthers converted 4th & 13rd & 4th downs · 69% expected | +10% CAR | CAR: Turnover on downs |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- Jaycee Horn (CAR CB), out (IR) · 0.6 pts
- Brady Christensen (CAR T), out (IR) · 0.5 pts
- Xavier Woods (CAR FS), out · 0.5 pts
- Jonathan Mingo (CAR WR), out · 0.4 pts
- Shaq Thompson (CAR LB), out (IR) · 0.4 pts
- Austin Corbett (CAR G), out (IR) · 0.3 pts
- Garrett Bradbury (MIN C), out · 0.3 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Vikings 94% · Panthers 6%
- Final margin
- Vikings by 8
- Luck in points
- 2.0 for the Panthers
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Vikings by 10.0
- Replay with same day's form
- Vikings 93% · Panthers 7% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 4 2023 games ·
Vikings ·
Panthers
More from Week 4 2023
- Lions at Packers DET 34–20 · replay 94% for the winner
- Falcons vs Jaguars JAX 23–7 · replay 80% for the winner
- Ravens at Browns BAL 28–3 · replay 94% for the winner
- Bengals at Titans TEN 27–3 · replay 43% for the winner
- Broncos at Bears DEN 31–28 · replay 34% for the winner
- Rams at Colts LA 29–23 · replay 77% for the winner
- Dolphins at Bills BUF 48–20 · replay 98% for the winner
- Steelers at Texans HOU 30–6 · replay 87% for the winner
- Buccaneers at Saints TB 26–9 · replay 87% for the winner
- Commanders at Eagles PHI 34–31 · replay 89% for the winner
- Raiders at Chargers LAC 24–17 · replay 89% for the winner
- Cardinals at 49ers SF 35–16 · replay 93% for the winner
- Patriots at Cowboys DAL 38–3 · replay 98% for the winner
- Chiefs at Jets KC 23–20 · replay 82% for the winner
- Seahawks at Giants SEA 24–3 · replay 89% for the winner