Week 10 2023 · November 12, 2023
Saints at Vikings, Week 10 2023: who deserved to win?
The Vikings beat the Saints 27–19, and it was no fluke: replayed with the way both teams actually played, the Vikings win 10 of 10. The Saints had the bounces: injuries alone were worth 8.4 points to the Saints.
An off day for the Saints: their offense and defense both played far below their usual level. In a fresh game against the Vikings they would win 44% of the time; with this day’s form, 3%. The numbers
Before kickoff the Saints were 59% favorites. The biggest swing (Q1, 0:10 left): Defensive Offside on the Saints (Carl Granderson), 5 yards, wiping out the play, worth 13 points of win probability to the Vikings.
Final
| 19 | |
| 27 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +3 Vikings about even · −3 Saints
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Saints win 0, Vikings win 10.
- 1 NO 21 MIN 24
- 2 NO 14 MIN 20
- 3 NO 7 MIN 17
- 4 NO 9 MIN 23
- 5 NO 15 MIN 31
- 6 NO 7 MIN 25
- 7 NO 20 MIN 41
- 8 NO 9 MIN 33
- 9 NO 17 MIN 45
- 10 NO 3 MIN 39
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
An off day for the Saints
Their offense and defense both played far below their usual level. In a fresh game against the Vikings they would win 44% of the time; with this day’s form, 3%.
Same teams, fresh game
Replay with same day's form
41 points apart for the Saints: the gap is how differently this game went from what the two teams usually are.
| Unit | This game | Usual level | Better or worse than usual |
|---|---|---|---|
| Saints offenseEPA per play gained | −0.14 | +0.07 | worse by 0.21 |
| Saints defenseEPA per play allowed | +0.31 | +0.04 | worse by 0.28 |
| Vikings offenseEPA per play gained | +0.31 | +0.11 | better by 0.21 |
| Vikings defenseEPA per play allowed | −0.14 | +0.10 | better by 0.24 |
EPA (expected points added) per play on competitive snaps, turnovers left out because they are valued as luck. Usual level: the team’s earlier games this season plus half of last season, pulled toward the league average. One team’s defense and the other team’s offense are the same snaps, so one game can’t fully say whose day it was; it shows how far this one was from both teams’ norms.
How 4,000 replays ended
Saints win 3% of them, Vikings 97%, counting the 1% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Vikings by 8.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Saints by 17+ | 0.1% |
| Saints by 9–16 | 0.6% |
| Saints by 1–8 | 2.3% |
| Level after regulation | 0.6% |
| Vikings by 1–8 | 7.4% |
| Vikings by 9–16 | 17.6% |
| Vikings by 17+ | 71.5% |
Where the luck was
Take the luck out
The final margin was Vikings by 8. Remove the luck, one kind at a time, and it becomes Vikings by 26.3.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- G. Joseph, 40 yds made · 88% expected
- B. Grupe, 48 yds made · 76% expected
- G. Joseph, 33 yds made · 94% expected
- G. Joseph, 54 yds missed · 64% expected
When it happened
Vikings’ chance of winning
As low as 46% and as high as 100%. Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q1 10:56 | The Vikings were stopped on 3rd & 43rd & 4th downs · 47% expected | +5% NO | MIN: Field goal |
| 2 | Q1 6:29 | The Vikings were stopped on 3rd & 43rd & 4th downs · 47% expected | +5% NO | MIN: Punt |
| 3 | Q1 2:35 | Offensive Holding on the Saints (Foster Moreau), 10 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls · 12 flags in 3302 snaps before, position avg 1 per 286 | +6% MIN | MIN: Touchdown |
| 4 | Q1 0:10 | Defensive Offside on the Saints (Carl Granderson), 5 yards, wiping out the playPre-snap flags · 7 flags in 2533 snaps before, position avg 1 per 295 | +13% MIN | MIN: Touchdown |
| 5 | Q2 11:54 | The Vikings converted 3rd & 53rd & 4th downs · 42% expected | +8% MIN | MIN: Touchdown |
| 6 | Q4 9:23 | Offensive Holding on the Vikings, 10 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls | +10% NO | NO: Punt |
| 7 | Q4 3:51 | Offensive Offside on the Saints (Rashid Shaheed), 5 yards, wiping out the playPre-snap flags · 1 flag in 861 snaps before, position avg 1 per 420 | +10% MIN | MIN: Punt |
| 8 | Q4 3:13 | The Saints were stopped on 3rd & 33rd & 4th downs · 49% expectedThe Saints threw an interception-worthy pass, and it was pickedInterceptions · 49% expected to stay out of the defense's hands | +5% MIN | NO: Turnover |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- Kirk Cousins (MIN QB), out (IR), replaced by j.dobbs · 6.2 pts
- Justin Jefferson (MIN WR), out (IR) · 1.7 pts
- K.J. Osborn (MIN WR), out · 0.5 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Saints 2% · Vikings 98%
- Final margin
- Vikings by 8
- Luck in points
- 18.3 for the Saints
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Vikings by 26.3
- Replay with same day's form
- Saints 3% · Vikings 97% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 10 2023 games ·
Saints ·
Vikings
More from Week 10 2023
- Panthers at Bears CHI 16–13 · replay 94% for the winner
- Colts vs Patriots IND 10–6 · replay 77% for the winner
- Browns at Ravens CLE 33–31 · replay 14% for the winner
- Packers at Steelers PIT 23–19 · replay 49% for the winner
- Texans at Bengals HOU 30–27 · replay 83% for the winner
- 49ers at Jaguars SF 34–3 · replay 95% for the winner
- Titans at Buccaneers TB 20–6 · replay 90% for the winner
- Falcons at Cardinals ARI 25–23 · replay 46% for the winner
- Lions at Chargers DET 41–38 · replay 67% for the winner
- Giants at Cowboys DAL 49–17 · replay 100% for the winner
- Commanders at Seahawks SEA 29–26 · replay 55% for the winner
- Jets at Raiders LV 16–12 · replay 48% for the winner
- Broncos at Bills DEN 24–22 · replay 33% for the winner