Week 11 2023 · November 19, 2023
Chargers at Packers, Week 11 2023: who deserved to win?
The Packers beat the Chargers 23–20, but the replays call it close to a coin flip: with the way both teams played, the Packers win 6 of 10. Luck ran their way: drops alone were worth 81 points of win probability to the Packers.
Before kickoff the Chargers were 59% favorites. The biggest swing (Q4, 0:30 left): Q. Johnston dropped a catchable pass, worth 55 points of win probability to the Packers.
Final
| 20 | |
| 23 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +45 Packers lucky · −45 Chargers
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Chargers win 4, Packers win 6.
- 1 LAC 31 GB 10
- 2 LAC 25 GB 13
- 3 LAC 30 GB 23
- 4 LAC 31 GB 29
- 5 LAC 31 GB 33
- 6 LAC 20 GB 24
- 7 LAC 10 GB 17
- 8 LAC 14 GB 24
- 9 LAC 31 GB 45
- 10 LAC 20 GB 42
Your call
Did the Packers earn it, or get lucky?
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
How 4,000 replays ended
Chargers win 45% of them, Packers 55%, counting the 6% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Packers by 3.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Chargers by 17+ | 9.6% |
| Chargers by 9–16 | 13.9% |
| Chargers by 1–8 | 21.1% |
| Level after regulation | 5.5% |
| Packers by 1–8 | 22.7% |
| Packers by 9–16 | 16.1% |
| Packers by 17+ | 11.0% |
Where the luck was
What the luck was worth
Every lucky and unlucky play, weighted by the moment it happened: its swing in win probability, added up by kind. A missed kick in a decided game counts for nothing; the same kick at the end of a tie game can be most of a win.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- C. Dicker, 25 yds made · 98% expected
- A. Carlson, 52 yds missed · 68% expected
- A. Carlson, 28 yds made · 97% expected
- C. Dicker, 26 yds made · 98% expected
- Extra point missed · 94% expected
Penalties: Chargers 4 for 54 yards, Packers 6 for 36 yards
Every accepted flag, in order, and what it did to the helped team’s chance of winning at that moment, including any play it wiped out (points on the scoreboard in grey). A flag in a decided game is worth nothing; one at the turn of a close game can be worth most of a win. Judgment calls count half toward luck; pre-snap fouls, which repeat, don’t count. How calls are valued
| When | Flag | Win probability for |
|---|---|---|
| Q1 15:00 | Offensive Holding on the Packers (Dallin Leavitt), 8 yards | +1% LAC +0.5 pts |
| Q2 10:46 | Face Mask on the Chargers (Austin Johnson), 15 yards | +6% GB +1.8 pts |
| Q2 8:12 | False Start on the Packers, 5 yards · pre-snap | +4% LAC +0.9 pts |
| Q2 3:49 | False Start on the Packers (Christian Watson), 5 yards · pre-snap | +4% LAC +0.6 pts |
| Q4 11:14 | Intentional Grounding on the Packers (Jordan Love), 9 yards | +3% LAC +0.8 pts |
| Q4 9:03 | Offensive Pass Interference on the Chargers (Stone Smartt), 10 yards | +7% GB +1.1 pts |
| Q4 7:40 | Delay of Game on the Chargers, 5 yards · pre-snap | +5% GB +0.8 pts |
| Q4 3:58 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Chargers (Asante Samuel Jr.), 24 yards | +12% GB +2.8 pts |
| Q4 1:01 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Packers (Keisean Nixon), 4 yards | +5% LAC +0.3 pts |
| Q4 0:23 | Defensive Offside on the Packers (Rashan Gary), 5 yards · pre-snap | +2% LAC 0.0 pts |
Chargers penalties, every game · Packers penalties, every game · All teams, 2023
When it happened
Packers’ chance of winning
As low as 20% and as high as 100%. Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q1 0:02 | The Packers converted 3rd & 83rd & 4th downs · 34% expected | +11% GB | GB: Touchdown |
| 2 | Q3 10:51 | K. Allen dropped a catchable passDrops · 4 drops on 159 catchable balls before this | +11% GB | LAC: Field goal |
| 3 | Q3 2:34 | The Packers fumbled and recovered it themselvesFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50 | +11% GB | GB: Touchdown |
| 4 | Q4 12:54 | The Chargers fumbled and the Packers recoveredFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50 | +15% GB | LAC: Touchdown |
| 5 | Q4 5:29 | The Chargers converted 3rd & 93rd & 4th downs · 24% expected | +12% LAC | LAC: Touchdown |
| 6 | Q4 3:58 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Chargers (Asante Samuel Jr.), 24 yardsJudgment calls · 11 flags in 2543 snaps before, position avg 1 per 216 | +12% GB | GB: Touchdown |
| 7 | Q4 1:20 | The Chargers fumbled and recovered it themselvesFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50 | +17% LAC | LAC: Turnover on downs |
| 8 | Q4 0:30 | Q. Johnston dropped a catchable passDrops · 0 drops on 23 catchable balls before this | +55% GB | LAC: Turnover on downs |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- Jaire Alexander (GB CB), out · 0.9 pts
- Rudy Ford (GB FS), out · 0.3 pts
- Mike Williams (LAC WR), out (IR) · 0.8 pts
- Corey Linsley (LAC C), out (IR) · 0.7 pts
- Josh Palmer (LAC WR), out (IR) · 0.6 pts
- Gerald Everett (LAC TE), out · 0.5 pts
- Jalen Guyton (LAC WR), out · 0.5 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Chargers 96% · Packers 4%
- Final margin
- Packers by 3
- Luck in points
- 16.3 for the Packers
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Chargers by 13.3
- Replay with same day's form
- Chargers 45% · Packers 55% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 11 2023 games ·
Chargers ·
Packers
More from Week 11 2023
- Bengals at Ravens BAL 34–20 · replay 92% for the winner
- Cardinals at Texans HOU 21–16 · replay 75% for the winner
- Bears at Lions DET 31–26 · replay 65% for the winner
- Cowboys at Panthers DAL 33–10 · replay 98% for the winner
- Raiders at Dolphins MIA 20–13 · replay 89% for the winner
- Giants at Commanders NYG 31–19 · replay 46% for the winner
- Steelers at Browns CLE 13–10 · replay 29% for the winner
- Titans at Jaguars JAX 34–14 · replay 83% for the winner
- Buccaneers at 49ers SF 27–14 · replay 99% for the winner
- Jets at Bills BUF 32–6 · replay 100% for the winner
- Seahawks at Rams LA 17–16 · replay 78% for the winner
- Vikings at Broncos DEN 21–20 · replay 83% for the winner
- Eagles at Chiefs PHI 21–17 · replay 45% for the winner