Week 5 2023 · October 8, 2023
Saints at Patriots, Week 5 2023: who deserved to win?
The Saints beat the Patriots 34–0, and it was no fluke: replayed with the way both teams actually played, the Saints win 9 of 10. The Patriots had the bounces: judgment calls alone were worth 3.1 points to the Patriots.
Before kickoff the Patriots were 57% favorites. The biggest swing (Q1, 7:11 left): Return touchdown by the Saints, worth 44 points of win probability to the Saints.
Final
| 34 | |
| 0 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +12 Saints about even · −12 Patriots
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Saints win 9, Patriots win 1.
- 1 NO 36 NE 3
- 2 NO 32 NE 9
- 3 NO 29 NE 10
- 4 NO 16 NE 0
- 5 NO 20 NE 7
- 6 NO 33 NE 23
- 7 NO 17 NE 10
- 8 NO 16 NE 12
- 9 NO 23 NE 21
- 10 NO 17 NE 23
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
How 4,000 replays ended
Saints win 88% of them, Patriots 12%, counting the 2% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Saints by 34.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Saints by 17+ | 49.3% |
| Saints by 9–16 | 21.0% |
| Saints by 1–8 | 17.4% |
| Level after regulation | 2.1% |
| Patriots by 1–8 | 6.6% |
| Patriots by 9–16 | 2.9% |
| Patriots by 17+ | 0.8% |
Where the luck was
Take the luck out
The final margin was Saints by 34. Remove the luck, one kind at a time, and it becomes Saints by 20.6.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- C. Ryland, 48 yds missed · 71% expected
- B. Grupe, 54 yds made · 62% expected
- B. Grupe, 53 yds made · 64% expected
When it happened
Patriots’ chance of winning
As low as 0% and as high as 64%. Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q1 13:53 | The Saints converted 3rd & 43rd & 4th downs · 45% expected | +5% NO | NO: Punt |
| 2 | Q1 11:23 | The Saints were stopped on 3rd & 103rd & 4th downs · 27% expected | +6% NE | NO: Punt |
| 3 | Q1 8:02 | The Saints were stopped on 3rd & 93rd & 4th downs · 29% expected | +4% NE | NO: Punt |
| 4 | Q1 7:11 | The Patriots were stopped on 3rd & 63rd & 4th downs · 32% expectedThe Patriots threw an interception-worthy pass, and it was pickedInterceptions · 45% expected to stay out of the defense's handsReturn touchdown by the SaintsSpecial teams | +44% NO | NE: Missed field goal |
| 5 | Q1 5:47 | Unnecessary Roughness on the Saints (Marshon Lattimore), 15 yardsJudgment calls · 23 flags in 3581 snaps before, position avg 1 per 216 | +5% NE | NE: Missed field goal |
| 6 | Q1 3:45 | C. Ryland missed 48-yard field goalKicks · 71% expected for him, 3 of 6 from 45+ before | +8% NO | NE: Punt |
| 7 | Q1 2:03 | The Saints converted 3rd & 113rd & 4th downs · 25% expected | +7% NO | NO: Touchdown |
| 8 | Q3 14:04 | The Patriots were stopped on 3rd & 13rd & 4th downs · 69% expectedThe Patriots fumbled and the Saints recoveredFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50 | +6% NO | NE: Punt |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- Christian Gonzalez (NE CB), out (IR) · 1.0 pts
- Marcus Jones (NE CB), out (IR) · 1.0 pts
- Matt Judon (NE LB), out · 0.5 pts
- Tyquan Thornton (NE WR), out (IR) · 0.4 pts
- Calvin Anderson (NE T), out · 0.3 pts
- Cole Strange (NE G), out · 0.3 pts
- Marcus Maye (NO FS), out (IR) · 0.4 pts
- Juwan Johnson (NO TE), out · 0.3 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Saints 100% · Patriots 0%
- Final margin
- Saints by 34
- Luck in points
- 13.4 for the Saints
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Saints by 20.6
- Replay with same day's form
- Saints 88% · Patriots 12% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 5 2023 games ·
Saints ·
Patriots
More from Week 5 2023
- Bears at Commanders CHI 40–20 · replay 22% for the winner
- Jaguars vs Bills JAX 25–20 · replay 14% for the winner
- Ravens at Steelers PIT 17–10 · replay 44% for the winner
- Panthers at Lions DET 42–24 · replay 92% for the winner
- Texans at Falcons ATL 21–19 · replay 41% for the winner
- Giants at Dolphins MIA 31–16 · replay 100% for the winner
- Titans at Colts IND 23–16 · replay 50% for the winner
- Bengals at Cardinals CIN 34–20 · replay 65% for the winner
- Eagles at Rams PHI 23–14 · replay 92% for the winner
- Chiefs at Vikings KC 27–20 · replay 78% for the winner
- Jets at Broncos NYJ 31–21 · replay 37% for the winner
- Cowboys at 49ers SF 42–10 · replay 99% for the winner
- Packers at Raiders LV 17–13 · replay 81% for the winner