Week 9 2023 · November 5, 2023
Rams at Packers, Week 9 2023: who deserved to win?
The Packers beat the Rams 20–3 and were the better team on the day: replayed with the same form, they win 7 of 10. The Rams had the bounces: fumble bounces alone were worth 4.7 points to the Rams.
Before kickoff the Packers were 60% favorites. The biggest swing (Q3, 7:17 left): the Rams were stopped on 3rd & 2, worth 10 points of win probability to the Packers.
Final
| 3 | |
| 20 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +25 Packers lucky · −25 Rams
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Rams win 3, Packers win 7.
- 1 LA 40 GB 24
- 2 LA 13 GB 6
- 3 LA 13 GB 10
- 4 LA 12 GB 14
- 5 LA 29 GB 33
- 6 LA 20 GB 27
- 7 LA 6 GB 17
- 8 LA 14 GB 27
- 9 LA 6 GB 23
- 10 LA 7 GB 33
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
How 4,000 replays ended
Rams win 25% of them, Packers 75%, counting the 5% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Packers by 17.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Rams by 17+ | 2.8% |
| Rams by 9–16 | 7.0% |
| Rams by 1–8 | 14.0% |
| Level after regulation | 4.5% |
| Packers by 1–8 | 25.4% |
| Packers by 9–16 | 22.5% |
| Packers by 17+ | 23.8% |
Where the luck was
Take the luck out
The final margin was Packers by 17. Remove the luck, one kind at a time, and it becomes Packers by 14.9.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- L. Havrisik, 52 yds made · 67% expected
- A. Carlson, 48 yds missed · 75% expected
- L. Havrisik, 49 yds missed · 73% expected
- A. Carlson, 26 yds made · 98% expected
- A. Carlson, 34 yds made · 93% expected
When it happened
Packers’ chance of winning
Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q1 12:17 | The Rams were stopped on 3rd & 13rd & 4th downs · 71% expected | +7% GB | LA: Punt |
| 2 | Q1 5:22 | Face Mask on the Packers (Rashan Gary), 15 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls · 6 flags in 2216 snaps before, position avg 1 per 444 | +7% LA | LA: Turnover |
| 3 | Q2 4:20 | The Rams converted 3rd & 113rd & 4th downs · 24% expected | +7% LA | LA: Field goal |
| 4 | Q2 0:04 | A. Carlson missed 48-yard field goalKicks · 75% expected for him, 2 of 2 from 45+ before | +8% LA | GB: Turnover |
| 5 | Q3 12:06 | Offensive Pass Interference on the Rams (Puka Nacua), 10 yards, wiping out the playJudgment calls · 1 flag in 494 snaps before, position avg 1 per 420 | +9% GB | GB: Turnover |
| 6 | Q3 8:22 | The Packers fumbled and the Rams recoveredFumble bounces · loose balls are close to 50/50 | +8% LA | GB: Field goal |
| 7 | Q3 7:17 | The Rams were stopped on 3rd & 23rd & 4th downs · 57% expected | +10% GB | LA: Missed field goal |
| 8 | Q3 6:34 | L. Havrisik missed 49-yard field goalKicks · 73% expected for him, 2 of 2 from 45+ before | +9% GB | LA: Turnover on downs |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- David Bakhtiari (GB T), out (IR) · 1.3 pts
- Quay Walker (GB LB), out · 0.4 pts
- Rudy Ford (GB FS), out · 0.3 pts
- Matthew Stafford (LA QB), out, replaced by b.rypien · 7.0 pts
- Rob Havenstein (LA T), out · 1.0 pts
- Ernest Jones (LA LB), out · 0.6 pts
- Kyren Williams (LA RB), out (IR) · 0.5 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Rams 0% · Packers 100%
- Final margin
- Packers by 17
- Luck in points
- 2.1 for the Packers
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Packers by 14.9
- Replay with same day's form
- Rams 25% · Packers 75% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 9 2023 games ·
Rams ·
Packers
More from Week 9 2023
- Titans at Steelers PIT 20–16 · replay 67% for the winner
- Dolphins vs Chiefs KC 21–14 · replay 68% for the winner
- Cardinals at Browns CLE 27–0 · replay 99% for the winner
- Bears at Saints NO 24–17 · replay 71% for the winner
- Vikings at Falcons MIN 31–28 · replay 44% for the winner
- Seahawks at Ravens BAL 37–3 · replay 98% for the winner
- Buccaneers at Texans HOU 39–37 · replay 81% for the winner
- Commanders at Patriots WAS 20–17 · replay 74% for the winner
- Colts at Panthers IND 27–13 · replay 80% for the winner
- Cowboys at Eagles PHI 28–23 · replay 54% for the winner
- Giants at Raiders LV 30–6 · replay 96% for the winner
- Bills at Bengals CIN 24–18 · replay 16% for the winner
- Chargers at Jets LAC 27–6 · replay 78% for the winner