Week 8 2023 · October 29, 2023
Jets at Giants, Week 8 2023: who deserved to win?
The Jets beat the Giants 13–10, and the replays back it up: with the way both teams actually played, the Jets win 8 of 10. The Giants had the bounces: fumble bounces alone were worth 21 points of win probability to the Giants.
Before kickoff the Jets were 59% favorites. The biggest swing (OT, 6:17 left): Defensive Pass Interference on the Giants (Adoree' Jackson), 30 yards, worth 39 points of win probability to the Jets.
Final (OT)
| 13 | |
| 10 |
Replay with same day's form
Luck index +16 Jets about even · −16 Giants
Each team’s own plays from this game, resampled into new drives 4,000 times: with the way both teams actually played, how often does this performance win? How the replay works
Ten replays. Jets win 8, Giants win 2.
- 1 NYJ 47 NYG 17
- 2 NYJ 32 NYG 9
- 3 NYJ 25 NYG 6
- 4 NYJ 33 NYG 18
- 5 NYJ 26 NYG 15
- 6 NYJ 23 NYG 15
- 7 NYJ 29 NYG 24
- 8 NYJ 16 NYG 13
- 9 NYJ 20 NYG 23
- 10 NYJ 6 NYG 20
Your call
Did the Jets earn it, or get lucky?
Three other ways to ask
Each answers a different question, so none of them replaces the replay above.
Before kickoff
The closing betting line, turned into a probability. What everyone knew before the game.
Same teams, fresh game
The line plus what this game showed, weighted by how much one game can tell. It stays close to the line because one game says little.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Every kick, fumble bounce, drop, conversion and judgment call redrawn; everything else fixed. The narrowest view of luck.
How 4,000 replays ended
Jets win 84% of them, Giants 16%, counting the 2% still level after regulation as half each. The line is what actually happened: Jets by 3.
Show as a table
| Final margin in the replays | Share of replays |
|---|---|
| Jets by 17+ | 45.9% |
| Jets by 9–16 | 20.0% |
| Jets by 1–8 | 17.4% |
| Level after regulation | 1.8% |
| Giants by 1–8 | 9.7% |
| Giants by 9–16 | 4.1% |
| Giants by 17+ | 1.1% |
Where the luck was
What the luck was worth
Every lucky and unlucky play, weighted by the moment it happened: its swing in win probability, added up by kind. A missed kick in a decided game counts for nothing; the same kick at the end of a tie game can be most of a win.
The kicks
How likely each kicker was to make that kick (his own record, the distance and the weather), and what happened.
- G. Gano, 31 yds made · 97% expected
- G. Gano, 47 yds missed · 82% expected
- G. Gano, 35 yds missed · 95% expected
- G. Zuerlein, 35 yds made · 92% expected
- G. Zuerlein, 33 yds made · 94% expected
Penalties: Jets 9 for 85 yards, Giants 6 for 73 yards
Every accepted flag, in order, and what it did to the helped team’s chance of winning at that moment, including any play it wiped out (points on the scoreboard in grey). A flag in a decided game is worth nothing; one at the turn of a close game can be worth most of a win. Judgment calls count half toward luck; pre-snap fouls, which repeat, don’t count. How calls are valued
| When | Flag | Win probability for |
|---|---|---|
| Q1 4:49 | False Start on the Jets, 5 yards · pre-snap | +2% NYG +0.6 pts |
| Q1 0:32 | Unnecessary Roughness on the Jets (Quincy Williams), 15 yards | +4% NYG +1.8 pts |
| Q2 11:35 | Defensive Offside on the Jets (John Franklin-Myers), 5 yards · pre-snap | 0% NYG +0.3 pts |
| Q2 11:23 | Face Mask on the Jets (Solomon Thomas), 15 yards | +2% NYG +0.4 pts |
| Q2 10:39 | False Start on the Giants, 5 yards · pre-snap | +2% NYJ +0.9 pts |
| Q2 4:20 | Unnecessary Roughness on the Jets, 15 yards | +5% NYG +1.4 pts |
| Q2 3:58 | Unnecessary Roughness on the Giants (Isaiah Simmons), 15 yards | +5% NYJ +1.2 pts |
| Q2 1:17 | Delay of Game on the Giants, 6 yards · pre-snap | +3% NYJ +0.3 pts |
| Q3 13:14 | Lowering the Head to Make Forcible Contact on the Jets (Quincy Williams), 15 yards | +6% NYG +1.4 pts |
| Q3 10:06 | Unnecessary Roughness on the Jets (Jermaine Johnson II), 5 yards | +5% NYG +1.9 pts |
| Q3 8:22 | False Start on the Jets, 5 yards · pre-snap | +2% NYG +0.5 pts |
| Q3 8:00 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Giants (Deonte Banks), 7 yards | +4% NYJ +1.5 pts |
| Q4 7:19 | Neutral Zone Infraction on the Jets (Micheal Clemons), 5 yards · pre-snap | +16% NYG +1.9 pts |
| OT 10:00 | Offensive Holding on the Giants (Daniel Bellinger), 10 yards | +12% NYJ +1.2 pts |
| OT 6:17 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Giants (Adoree' Jackson), 30 yards | +39% NYJ +0.8 pts |
Jets penalties, every game · Giants penalties, every game · All teams, 2023
When it happened
Giants’ chance of winning
As low as 0% and as high as 97%. Numbers mark the biggest luck moments, listed below.
| # | When | What happened | Win probability for | Next drive |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Q2 12:48 | G. Gano missed a 47-yard field goalKicks · 82% expected for him, 36 of 44 from 45+ before | +13% NYJ | NYG: Punt |
| 2 | Q2 4:20 | The Jets were stopped on 3rd & 43rd & 4th downs · 44% expectedUnnecessary Roughness on the Jets, 15 yardsJudgment calls | +12% NYG | NYJ: Punt |
| 3 | Q4 7:59 | The Giants were stopped on 3rd & 33rd & 4th downs · 50% expected | +12% NYJ | NYG: Punt |
| 4 | Q4 7:19 | Neutral Zone Infraction on the Jets (Micheal Clemons), 5 yardsPre-snap flags · 4 flags in 740 snaps before, position avg 1 per 295 | +16% NYG | NYG: Punt |
| 5 | Q4 2:27 | The Jets converted 3rd & 113rd & 4th downs · 23% expected | +11% NYJ | NYJ: Turnover on downs |
| 6 | OT 10:00 | Offensive Holding on the Giants (Daniel Bellinger), 10 yardsJudgment calls · 3 flags in 974 snaps before, position avg 1 per 286 | +12% NYJ | NYJ: Field goal |
| 7 | OT 7:26 | The Jets converted 3rd & 103rd & 4th downs · 25% expected | +18% NYJ | NYJ: Field goal |
| 8 | OT 6:17 | Defensive Pass Interference on the Giants (Adoree' Jackson), 30 yardsJudgment calls · 8 flags in 2902 snaps before, position avg 1 per 216 | +39% NYJ | NYJ: Field goal |
Missing players
Key players (usually on the field for half the snaps or more) who missed this game or part of it, valued by position and quality. The same players are missing in every replay, so this counts as luck in points only.
- Daniel Jones (NYG QB), out, replaced by t.taylor · 2.0 pts
- Andrew Thomas (NYG T), out · 0.8 pts
- Evan Neal (NYG T), out · 0.7 pts
- Azeez Ojulari (NYG DE), out (IR) · 0.3 pts
- Joshua Ezeudu (NYG G), out (IR) · 0.2 pts
- Duane Brown (NYJ T), out (IR) · 1.0 pts
- Joe Tippmann (NYJ C), out · 0.3 pts
- Alijah Vera-Tucker (NYJ G), out (IR) · 0.2 pts
Adjust the assumptions
Disagree with how much of a fumble bounce or a pass interference call is luck? Change it and the coin-flip replay reruns in your browser.
Only coin-flips re-rolled
Jets 58% · Giants 42%
- Final margin
- Jets by 3
- Luck in points
- 5.2 for the Jets
- Luck-adjusted margin
- Giants by 2.2
- Replay with same day's form
- Jets 84% · Giants 16% unchanged: why
About these numbers
Play-by-play and win probability from nflfastR via nflverse; kicks valued against each kicker’s own record; drops and interception-worthy throws from FTN charting; injuries from snap counts and injury reports.
Methodology and validation · All Week 8 2023 games ·
Jets ·
Giants
More from Week 8 2023
- Buccaneers at Bills BUF 24–18 · replay 99% for the winner
- Falcons at Titans TEN 28–23 · replay 31% for the winner
- Texans at Panthers CAR 15–13 · replay 48% for the winner
- Jaguars at Steelers JAX 20–10 · replay 94% for the winner
- Rams at Cowboys DAL 43–20 · replay 84% for the winner
- Vikings at Packers MIN 24–10 · replay 94% for the winner
- Patriots at Dolphins MIA 31–17 · replay 96% for the winner
- Saints at Colts NO 38–27 · replay 95% for the winner
- Eagles at Commanders PHI 38–31 · replay 68% for the winner
- Browns at Seahawks SEA 24–20 · replay 41% for the winner
- Ravens at Cardinals BAL 31–24 · replay 63% for the winner
- Bengals at 49ers CIN 31–17 · replay 13% for the winner
- Chiefs at Broncos DEN 24–9 · replay 50% for the winner
- Bears at Chargers LAC 30–13 · replay 66% for the winner
- Raiders at Lions DET 26–14 · replay 92% for the winner